you would think at this as a result of discrimination and slavery would've been worse during the jim crow era or worse than that when you go back to slavery. i think they are complicated social causes for this. i think that the great society, i think the way the welfare system worked for years is cultural. and i think it's also fundamentally has a lot to do with morality and religion and the fact that the four essays -- it's become more and more acceptable in our society to have children out of wedlock. and in particular in the african-american community. and it's too bad. >> and a social science does show anything, it is the correlation between to a parent families and achievement. >> absolutely. i was also politically incorrect to say for a long time. when daniel patrick moynihan pointed out the problem in the 1960s, he got such a firestorm of criticism that he stopped. as brave a man coming at nothing to do with this issue for the rest of his career. but now it is becoming i think increasingly recognized on both sides of the aisle, dennis rogers says, you name the social pathology